Madonna’s Daughter Had Some Choice Words For Her Mom In A Telling Interview

People knew all about Lourdes before she was even out of diapers, of course. Madonna even discussed her new baby daughter at length in a 1997 interview with Oprah Winfrey. The singer was, she said, “a little bit shocked” when she found out she was pregnant — but definitely not unhappy about it.

Lourdes’ father is Carlos León, the man from whom Lourdes inherited her last name. He and Madonna weren’t married when Lourdes came along — garnering some attention in the press — but that didn’t matter in the end. The two of them co-parented, and to this day Lourdes is close to her dad.

People were immediately interested in how Madonna would take to motherhood, though. The singer naturally had lots of thoughts about parenting — and pretty firm ideas about how she wanted her daughter to turn out. As soon as Lourdes was old enough, then, she would be asked to discuss how successful her mother was in that department. And so far she hasn’t held back.

In the 1997 interview, Oprah asked Madonna what she most intended to teach her new child. The pop star answered, “Self-respect.” When Oprah pressed her as to what she’d tell Lourdes about the opposite sex, Madonna quipped, “Well, I think that if you learn self-respect, you don’t need to be taught about men.”

Madonna was also determined not to spoil her child too much. She told the Los Angeles Times in 1998, “If she had her way, she’d be eating candy all day. She loves candy. She doesn’t like playing with toys, but she loves taking the top off of every writing implement in my house and drawing all over the walls. Unfortunately, all of my friends do spoil her when they come around. But what can you do?”

That wasn’t all. Madonna wanted to instill a strong sense of discipline in her child. Whenever Lourdes left dirty clothing scattered on the ground, Madonna once explained, the singer would confiscate the dropped outfits. Lourdes then had to “earn all of her clothes back” — or go to school in the same clothes, day after day, until she tidied up.

Lourdes gained her first sibling before too long, though. After Madonna married film director Guy Ritchie, she had a boy named Rocco in the year 2000. Four years later, in another Oprah interview, she revealed an interesting parenting tidbit. She said, “We don’t talk about fame, we don’t have magazines in the house, and we don’t watch TV.”

But the fame was there whether the family wished to talk about it or not. And Madonna knew that path was a difficult one to walk. She told Oprah in 2004, “My daughter is a daily reminder of the issues I have to work on — being too consumed with the way I look and what people think of me, feeling insecure, all that stuff.”

Madonna also mentioned her difficult relationship with the media and how she didn’t “feel in control” of her life for a while. She said, “The big turning point was when I was about to become a parent. I wanted to understand what I would teach my daughter, and I didn’t really know where I stood on things. I wanted to know the meaning of true and lasting happiness and how I could go about finding it.”

This push and pull between Madonna the megastar and Madonna the mom was well illustrated with an anecdote she told Newsweek in 2012. The pop star said she had a corset outfit picked out for a movie screening — but that a 15-year-old Lourdes didn’t like it. Madonna wore it anyway and explained to the magazine, “I say to my kids all the time, ‘I’m an artist, this is what I do, this is what I’ve always done.’ And they need to learn to separate it.”

In 2012 Lourdes was snapped smoking by a photographer — and it made the news. This caused Madonna to tell Harry Smith from Rock Center, “I think I am [a tough parent], but honestly, I don’t think I’m as tough as I should be. I think I need to be maybe tougher. It’s hard, every day is a negotiation.”

Madonna completed her family while her two older kids grew toward adulthood. She adopted David and Mercy in 2006 and 2007, respectively, and in 2017 twins Stella and Estere joined the clan. All four children come from Malawi. Lourdes spoke about her adopted siblings in her recent interview as well.

But even with other kids to take care of, Madonna missed her oldest daughter once Lourdes went off to college. In 2015 the star said on The Ellen DeGeneres Show, “And then my daughter left me, and I fell into the deepest depression. And I’m always so happy when she calls me and she says, ‘Mommy, I miss you,’ or ‘I need you to rub my head.’”

Yet as soon as Lourdes was old enough, she began embarking on her own career. From 2014 to 2018, she went to the University of Michigan — the same establishment her mother went to back in the day. Then Lourdes began breaking out in show business... but Madonna didn’t seem too sure about that.

In 2019 Madonna told British Vogue, “I’m green with envy because she’s incredible at everything she does — she’s an incredible dancer, she’s a great actress, she plays the piano beautifully, she’s way better than me in the talent department. But she doesn’t have the same drive.” And there was more.

Madonna continued, “I feel social media plagues her and makes her feel like, ‘People are going to give me things because I’m her daughter.’ I try to give her examples of other children of celebrities like Zoe Kravitz, for instance, who have to work through that ‘oh yeah, you’re the daughter of...’ and then eventually you are taken seriously for what you do. You just have to keep going.”

However, the star reiterated, “But does she have the same drive that I have? No. But she also has a mother, and I didn’t. She grew up with money, and I didn’t. So everything is going to be different. But what can I do? I can’t fixate on it. I just have to do my best.”

Madonna also kind of compared Lourdes to her son David. She told Vogue, “What [David] has more than anything is focus and determination. I’m pretty sure he gets it from me. He’s the one I have the most in common with. I feel like he gets me; he has more of my DNA than any of my children so far. Let’s see what happens — it’s still early days for everyone.”

Madonna later revealed in that interview that she wouldn’t allow David to have a phone, saying, “I’m going to stick that one out for as long as possible, because I made a mistake when I gave my older children phones when they were 13. It ended my relationship with them, really. Not completely, but it became a very, very big part of their lives. They became too inundated with imagery and started to compare themselves to other people, and that’s really bad for self-growth.”

Lourdes works as a model now, and she’s been one of the faces of Stella McCartney. But she doesn’t want to be the normal Instagram kind of model. She told Vanity Fair in April 2021, “You need to gather yourself and think about the way in which you want to get to know people because that’s just not how you do it.”

Notably, Lourdes was also romantically linked with movie star and fellow LaGuardia High School student Timothée Chalamet for a while. She confirmed the rumors in the Vanity Fair interview, saying, “I respect him a lot. We were a little item; my first boyfriend.” They’re not together anymore, though, and now her boyfriend is Jonathan Puglia.

Lourdes is very aware many people think she got her modeling job because of nepotism. She was one of several models interviewed for a Vogue piece in August 2021, and she stated straight up, “People think I’m this talentless rich kid who’s had everything given to her, but I’m not.”

Lourdes elaborated on this statement at length in an October 2021 chat with Interview magazine. Actress Debi Mazar, a lifelong friend of Madonna and her family, was asking the questions. So perhaps that’s why Lourdes got surprisingly candid and even quite blunt while talking to her.

The young woman told Mazar, “We don’t get any handouts in my family. Obviously, I grew up with extreme privilege. There’s no denying that. But I think my mom saw all these other kids of famous people, and she was like, ‘My kids are not going to be like this.’” Lourdes had paid for her own college tuition and apartment.

Lourdes went on, “Also, I feel like if your parents pay for things, then it gives them leverage over you. My mom is such a control freak, and she has controlled me my whole life. I needed to be completely independent from her as soon as I graduated high school.”

Mazar tended to agree with Lourdes. She told her, “You’ve always been extremely independent. You always had something to say, even as a little kid. You didn’t agree with things. You wanted to do things your way. And you gave your mother a run for her money.”

Lourdes had been kept on quite a tight leash as a child, Mazar remembered. She said, “I remember once when I babysat you, I brought you to my house and gave you some cookies and snuck you in front of a TV because you weren’t allowed to watch TV when you were little.” Lourdes answered, “It was probably the happiest day of my life. The list of things I wasn’t allowed to do is never-ending.”

There was no indication Lourdes actually resented her mother for this, though. Mazar pointed out to her that she was “fiercely protective” of her famous mom and would bite back whenever anyone criticized her. In practice, this would lead Lourdes to comment on their moms — leaving people “really taken aback.”

Lourdes also had praise for her mother and her career. She said, “My experience with my mom’s music has changed so much as I’ve gotten older, because I’m increasingly able to recognize how influential and amazing this woman is, and how empowering to other women and ahead of her time she has always been.”

The young model didn’t stop there. She said, “I didn’t fully comprehend that until I realized the importance of empowerment and what it means to be a woman. She’s probably the hardest worker I’ve ever seen. I didn’t inherit that, unfortunately. I inherited her control issues, but not her work ethic.”

Asked if her mom had ever given her good advice, Lourdes said that at the beginning of her model career Madonna had told her, “It’s not about the money or your face or how hot you look. It’s about what you’re bringing into the world and what you’re going to leave behind.” She had taken it to heart.

Mazar told Lourdes she remembered her as a little girl “wearing [her] mom’s clothes, doing each other’s hair and makeup.” Mazer asked, “For years, you’ve kept away from the spotlight, because of your mother. Now that you’re out there doing your own thing, how does it feel?”

Lourdes answered, “It’s kind of a nightmare, but I think it would have been worse if I hadn’t kept my life as private as possible. I’ve been judged from a young age, but I think that privacy is the reason why I was able to keep my wits about me and not find myself in a mental asylum.”

Mazar asked what Lourdes’ famously good-looking mother thought about her embarking on a modeling career. She answered, “She’s very much like, ‘Proceed with caution and think about what you want to be known for.’ I’ve thought a lot about that recently because as a model, you’re basically relying on your looks.”

Lourdes went on, “It can feel very overwhelming and can potentially cause a lot of insecurity. Obviously, you’re not going to look the same your whole life. My mom is very insistent on making me think about what I want to be known for beyond my looks. That’s not what I want people to remember me by. It’s not real.”

Mazar said to Lourdes, “It must be hard to be the oldest in your family, but you seem to take it with ease.” Lourdes told her, “It’s funny, the only siblings that I ever really argue with are the boys… A 15- or 20-year-old brother? Come on. Obviously, we’re going to fight.” She didn’t fight with her sisters, though.

Lourdes said, “Mercy and I have never, ever fought about anything. She’s always had my back, and I’ve always tried to be the best big sister I can be for her. It’s harder with the twins because I don’t live at the house anymore.” But she seemed to have healthy relationships with all of them.

The relationship between Lourdes and Madonna is discussed a lot — and even more so since that interview dropped. Later on in October, after the Interview piece, an anonymous source told OK! magazine that Lourdes and her siblings were intervening to stop Madonna from being so “hyper and gratuitous” in her public life.

The source said, “Madonna thinks she’s being hip and irreverent and still gets this huge kick out of shocking people, but it’s reaching a boiling point. [The siblings] plan to sit their mom down and tell her she needs a reset before she winds up imploding and ruining her legacy.” They did, however, add that Madonna’s children loved and respected her — something that Lourdes certainly made clear in her interview. But not everyone shares that level of respect for the star. In fact, there are plenty of celebrities who really aren’t fans...

Pop legend Elton John has a habit of shooting his mouth off about Madonna, then apologizing afterwards. Every time he does it, though, it comes with a huge amount of vitriol. At the 2004 Q Awards he railed against Madonna being included in the Best Live Act category, saying, “Since when has lip-syncing been live? Anyone who lip-syncs in public on stage when you pay £75 to see them should be shot.”

Then, during a 2012 interview with Molly Meldrum, he complained, “Why is she such a nightmare? Sorry, her career is over. Her tour has been a disaster.” He then dropped the mic with, “And she looks like a… fairground stripper.” Yikes. By 2016 John said he and Madonna had settled their differences, but it’s probably only a matter of time before he lets his disdain for her show again.

Broadway star Patti Lupone took aim at Madonna in 2017 during an episode of Watch What Happens Live with Andy Cohen. In a damning indictment of the pop icon’s silver-screen efforts, Lupone told the TV host, “Madonna is a movie killer. She’s dead behind the eyes. She couldn’t act her way out of a paper bag. She should not be on film or on stage.”

Lupone’s savage outburst was triggered when the conversation turned to Evita, the 1996 Madonna movie which adapted the acclaimed musical for the screen. Lupone had actually played the role of Eva Perón in the original 1979 Broadway production, and she seemed to take offence at Madonna’s portrayal. Lupone finished her verdict with, “She’s a wonderful performer for what she does, but she is not an actress.”

Gwyneth Paltrow and Madonna were once the best of friends. When both American ladies were living in the U.K. with their respective English husbands Chris Martin and Guy Ritchie, the two bonded so much that Paltrow said Madonna felt like her older sister. But, sometime after Ritchie and Madonna divorced, things went south, and Paltrow threw some thinly veiled shade in an interview with Vogue magazine. 

Paltrow said in 2010, “I can be mean. I can cave into gossip. I can ice people out and I can definitely harbor revenge. In fact, I’m having a situation right now with a friend where I’m feeling pretty angry.” She then fired a direct shot when talking about her personal trainer, saying, “It’s good that she doesn’t train Madonna anymore. It was too much. She keeps people waiting – it takes up your whole day.”

If there’s anyone in music who can be counted on to deliver a vicious takedown of another pop star, it’s The Smiths frontman Morrissey. Some people love him because they believe he tells it like it is, whereas others can’t stand him because they think he deliberately seeks to shock. Either way, Madonna has been on the receiving end of his distaste on a few occasions.

In a 1986 interview with NME magazine, the acid-tongued singer said, “Obviously Madonna reinforces everything absurd and offensive. Desperate womanhood. Madonna is closer to organized prostitution than anything else.” Then in 2015 he railed against her performance at the Brit Awards, calling her “MacDonna” and complaining that her music has never given any insight into British life. Which, to be fair, it hasn’t. Because she’s American.

On March 31, 1994, a piece of late-night talk show history was aired on CBS. Madonna’s astonishing appearance on The Late Show with David Letterman became the most censored U.S. talk show episode ever. Why? Well, it probably had something to do with Madonna saying the F-word 14 times and generally making every sexual innuendo under the sun while the stunned host tried in vain to reel her in.

In later years, any time Letterman referred to the incident, he painted it as a disaster. The Federal Communications Commission certainly received a host of complaints. Letterman witheringly told the newspaper USA Today in ’94 that a fax Madonna subsequently sent him on his birthday was her attempt at “trying to be funny about it.” But he didn’t seem overly amused. All in all, it was an interview that will live in infamy.

During a CBS interview in 1991 the Goddess of Pop Cher recounted an anecdote about inviting Madonna to her house for dinner. It hadn’t gone well. Cher said, “There’s something about her that I don’t like. She’s…mean.” She claimed Madonna was rude and didn’t behave as magnanimously as she could have, before finishing with a pretty shocking swear word aimed in the Queen of Pop’s direction.

Later that year, Cher appeared on the British TV chat show Wogan and clarified her feelings on Madonna with some super-backhanded compliments. The icon said, “She’s unbelievably creative because she’s not unbelievably talented, she’s not beautiful, but she’s kind of, she’s rude.” She added, “I do respect that she goes much farther than anyone should go, and I think that’s interesting about her that she’s willing to do whatever she wants to do.”

In 2015 Piers Morgan, known for his outspoken opinions on anything and everything, delivered a stunning takedown of Madonna for the website of British newspaper the Daily Mail. He wrote, “I’ve watched this undeniably supremely gifted woman descend into a pantomime freak, on and off stage.” He added, “Madonna is as immature as the gormless toyboys she dates and dumps with the zealotry of a pubescent teenager.”

Morgan also skewered her behavior as a mother, highlighting how she posted a photo of her 13-year-old Rocco holding a bottle of gin on Instagram. He wrote, “What sort of mother puts that kind of image into the public domain, exposing her young teenage son to public condemnation? A negligent, dumb, self-obsessed, and repulsive one. That’s what.” Don’t hold back, Piers: tell us how you really feel!

Roseanne star Sandra Bernhard and Madonna were close friends in the late ‘80s. They even made an appearance together on The Late Show with David Letterman wearing matching outfits. Bernhard told another talk show host, Wendy Williams, in 2010, “We would go out, we would have a genuinely great time, and I think we were a really good example of two women being friends.” Somewhere along the line, though, their relationship fell apart. 

While Bernhard would never confirm what happened, she did tell Williams, “I would have liked that to have gone on for a while. Certain people can’t handle those kinds of friendships. That’s not my style. I like to maintain friendships throughout my life.” While apparently the two women are cordial these days, they’re not actually friends; as Bernhard told Us Weekly magazine, “People move on, and you have your life.”

Madonna’s TV appearance on The Arsenio Hall Show in 1990 rubbed the host up the wrong way. For some reason, it seemed like the mischievous pop princess wanted to get a reaction from Hall, so she teased him about how his ex-girlfriend Paula Abdul was now with another celebrity. She poked, “I want to know how it feels to be dumped for John Stamos, because I feel bad for you.” 

On top of this, Madonna then made fun of Hall’s haircut and inferred he and best friend Eddie Murphy were romantically involved. In 2014 Hall admitted in a video interview that any time Madonna was on his show there was a bit of tension. He then confessed, “You don’t know if this is gonna go alright, and you don’t know if she likes the host, whether she is going to cooperate.” It sounds super-stressful.

In 2019 talk show host Wendy Williams took aim at 61-year-old Madonna for dating 26-year-old Ahlamalik Williams. She said, “Here’s the thing. He is the same age as her daughter Lourdes, okay? They’re all on the same vacation, and there’s old grandma, booed up with a 26-year-old.” Wendy then lamented, “I don’t think she understands it’s okay to grow older gracefully.”

A source close to the Queen of Pop hit back to Hollywood Life magazine with, “Madonna is constantly fighting against ageism, she’s constantly getting judged for not being young enough and it’s really sad and tiresome. In Wendy’s case, it’s extra sad because she’s not much younger than Madonna. She should be supporting her fight against ageism, not tearing her down.”

Famously catty actor Rupert Everett and Madonna were good friends in the ‘90s. But, after they starred together in the 2001 flop The Next Big Thing, they seemed to go their separate ways. In 2006 Everett released his memoir Red Carpets And Other Banana Skins and took the opportunity to dish some dirt on Madonna’s marriage to Sean Penn. He also said some questionable things about Madge.

In 2021 Everett appeared on TV show Piers Morgan’s Life Stories and the host asked him why he dubbed Madonna a “whiny old barmaid” in his memoir. He also inquired about referring to her as “a curious little thing,” “Satan” and a “She-man.” Everett claimed his comments were meant to be affectionate, with the barmaid quote actually being a compliment about her voice. Um, okay.

In 2012 Madonna introduced Avicii at the Ultra Music Festival in Miami. She said to the crowd at the electronic dance music event, “How many people in this crowd have seen molly?” This was a reference to MDMA, a drug strongly associated with EDM music. The crowd cheered her, but one person wasn’t happy with her comment: EDM kingpin Deadmau5.

You see, Deadmau5 has railed against the idea he makes music for people who take drugs to enjoy it. He also refuses to take drugs himself and wants to rid the genre of these negative associations. He told Rolling Stone magazine, “You want to be ‘hip’ and ‘cool’ and ‘funky grandma’? Fine. It’s not my place to say you’re irrelevant,” before adding, “If you’re gonna come into my world, at least do it with a little more dignity.”

Music icon Joni Mitchell made some pretty damning comments about Madonna in a 1991 Rolling Stone interview. She spoke of how music at that time had become “burlesque,” lamenting that, “Every generation has to be more shocking than the last.” Playing devil’s advocate, the interviewer then argued Madonna could be seen as a feminist icon, using her sexuality for her own benefit rather than being manipulated by a man. 

“That’s an interesting idea, but what’s the difference between her and a hard hooker, you know?” an unsure Mitchell responded. “Who’s being exploited there?” She then clarified her issue by saying, “There’s always been that type of female. There’s always been a market for it, but the danger is that she thinks she’s a role model. And it’s a terrible role model. It’s death to all things real.” Whoa.

Erin and Sara Foster, the stars of the reality show spoof Barely Famous, are the daughters of music producer David Foster. In 2015 they revealed Madonna came over to their dad’s house in L.A. when they were children. An excited Erin laughed about how she tried to impress the pop icon by copying an outfit she had worn to an awards bash.

“I tried to recreate the look so when she would see me, she’d think, ‘Oh, you’re really cool!’” continued Erin. Unfortunately, Madonna had no time for the girls at all. Sara said, “She was not impressed. She was like, ‘What are these kids doing here?’” Erin agreed, “She wanted nothing to do with us.” All in all, snubbing a couple of young fans like that isn’t a great look for a pop star.

This particular feud was started by Madonna in 1996 during a Spin magazine interview. While talking about how America doesn’t respect true “art” and the people who make it, Madonna accused Carey of producing material that was overly “sanitized” and played things too safe. She then responded to the interviewer asking her if she ever wanted to sing, “silly pop songs” like Carey with a savage, “I’d kill myself.”

Carey wasn’t one to take this lying down, though. She told TV show MTV News in ’96, “I really haven’t paid attention to Madonna since I was in, like, seventh or eighth grade, when she used to be popular. So, I didn’t hear that.” Two years later she threw more age-related shade when she said she hadn’t heard Madonna’s new album, and added, “Growing up, I liked her first album a lot.” Dang!

A 2006 Channel 4 TV documentary entitled The Madness of Boy George featured the singer venting about celebrities. He reserved a lot of venom for Madonna, saying, “I just think she’s a vile, hideous human being with no redeeming qualities. There’s nothing nice about her.” The controversial star then added, “Vile, full of herself – so unspiritual. How has this woman got away with it for so long?”

All the same, while this may seem a definitive statement of hatred, in 2021 the Culture Club singer walked back his comments. When talk show host Jonathan Ross asked him about his damning verdict, he replied, “It’s not something I would say now. It’s really just…I’m actually a bit embarrassed I said that. Madonna...she fascinates me. I love Madonna.” You’ve got a funny way of showing it, George.

The first confirmation of Janet Jackson disliking Madonna came during a 1994 interview with Vibe magazine. When asked if she hated the Queen of Pop, Janet said, “I never said ‘hate.’ Hate is a strong word. But if I did hate, I’d have valid reasons.” On another occasion, when Madonna’s music was compared to hers, Janet replied, “I think – how do I put this? I think what I do has class to it. I’ll say that.”

In 2011 a possible reason was put forward for the origin of Janet’s dislike. Jermaine Jackson wrote in his memoir that their brother Michael had dated Madonna for a period before realizing they weren’t compatible. But, on one dinner date, Madonna made the huge mistake of criticizing his beloved sister Janet to Michael’s face. He was not amused. Perhaps Madonna’s words got back to Janet?

This entry may need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but in October 2008 British tabloid newspaper the Daily Mirror obtained some quotes allegedly uttered by Guy Ritchie shortly after it was announced he and Madonna were divorcing. The aggrieved director supposedly told his friends, “She’s obsessed with her own public image, obsessed with being seen as some kind of global soothsayer. It’s silly; she’s a pop star.”

Ritchie also allegedly said, “I just wanted a regular husband-and-wife thing – not least for the sake of the kids. But it was always a great song and dance just to do ordinary stuff.” He supposedly added, “I want to be able to go about my business and live my life without all the hoopla. Unfortunately, she can’t live without all the hoopla. Our marriage was a three-ring circus in the end.”

This long-running beef began in 2012 when Madonna accused “Born This Way” singer Lady Gaga of ripping off her hit song “Express Yourself.” She told ABC News, “I thought, this is a wonderful way to redo my song. I mean, I recognized the chord changes.” The Queen of Pop even called the song “reductive.” Ouch. In response, Gaga argued that the same chord progression had been used in disco music for the last five decades. 

Then in 2016 she told radio host Zane Lowe, “I don’t mean to disrespect Madonna. She’s a nice lady and she’s had a fantastic, huge career – biggest pop star of all time. But I play a lot of instruments. I write all my own music.” She added, “What I do is different. I’m not just rehearsing over and over again to put on a show.” Meow.